World Impact Ministries / Peter Youngren

Mr. Carter’s definition of ‘religious fundamentalists’ sounds like a great description of a card carrying Pharisee to me. As for the past being better than the present, isn’t that just another manifestion of rank unbelief? Didn’t the children of Israel teach us that when they cried out to Moses about the mouth watering cucumber and other salad ingredients they could only get back in Egypt?

Peter,
You are so unbelievably right on the mark. I too am an old Tozer fan, an Andrew Murray fan, a fan of the Revivalists and so many more, but today’s ‘fundamentalists’ are definitely as Jimmy Carter has described.
I appreciate your list of Fundamentalism.
Thanks for your enthusiasm for Jesus!
Ike Huber,
Nanton, AB.

I could not agree more. Christians are hostile, self righteous and alien in many ways to the character of Christ. I should know, I used to be like that. It seem Christian fear the world, the Old Covenant was ‘comeout from among them, the New Covenant is ‘go into all the world.’ The Holy Spirit, if trusted, enables us to live in Christ in this world.

Gabrielle and I have just read your new magazine. I have heard many preachers said that once we are saved, we are forever saved, except John Bevere & Greg Laurie.In John’s new book, Driven by Eternity,he mentioned that in the late 1980’s, he had a spiritual vision that he saw multitude of so-called believers did not make it to heaven. He also mentions ‘grace’ in the book. He says that we are supposed to proclaim the whole counsel of God, Acts 20-26,27 and Col 1:28, and not just the benefits of salvation. He says that there are 3 categories of people burn in the lake of fire—the sinners, those who turn back from following Jesus and those unfaithful to Him. Like Greg Laurie, they both agree that it is not just saying a salvation prayer and going to Church, but a change of heart. Many professed that they are Christians and actually believe that Jesus is their Savior for the benefits of salvation, but are living in ontinual, habitual and wilful sin. I agree with John Bevere and Greg Laurie, because not everyone who says ‘Lord, LOrd,...‘will enter the kingdom of heaven. Why, because they PRACTICE lawlessness. So, by just teacing grace only and not repented sins can be dangerous, as it only tickle people’s ears.

Sorry—but in Joseph Prince’s article about ‘no more condemnation, no more judgment’, how about in Rom 8:1…who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Many only quote the first part of Rom:1, but ignore the second part. What does the whole scripture mean then? I just want to know the truth. Thanks again.

I do agree with you Pastor. As fundamentalists we should always stick to the unchanging truths of the Word of God and moreso to obey God whatever the cost.

Pastor peter I could not agree more. you have said it all.

However, that is not we see hear on Bay street Down Town Toronto. allthough Jesus torn the wall of division between women and men as well as races Etc… the fact is at this point of my life my day to day expriance in corporate world completly the oppostite. in other words Sexisim , racism, classisim what not is an evedent hear in my world.

Re: previous posters, not Youngren (who is too positive and nice to be a real Christian)

The Gabrielle and Lisa posts make clear what non Christians have always understood about the fraudulent saviour of Christianity. That he saves nothing, does nothing, and like every other religion, is the same old ‘do this, do that’ garbage of every other religion.

So much for that idea that Jesus is the one doing what we can’t do since we apparently save ourselves with our own piety. By the way, how do you become sinless when you aren’t perfect? I am sure you’ll have a perfectly good, wordy, nonsensical and stupid answer with lots of ‘you’ll burn in hell’ mixed in.

The reason I don’t consider Jesus a saviour is no one can figure out how He saves anything. If I do the saving, than I should be credited ‘CO-SAVIOUR’, a title appropriate for a pious sinless man who has saved himself…oh I am sorry, who was saved, or whatever.

Why don’t you Christians get over the LIE that Jesus saves? In the supernatural light, ‘we’re not religious’ garbage Christianity of America, it is clear He doesn’t do anything. Why ask Him for what he can’t do? He is like all other religios with ‘do this, do that’ or I’ll boil your ass in hell for being alive!

Go to church and sit through the torture of the latest ‘I’m not perfect’ preacher. What puke!
Christianity is the original ‘how dare you not be perfect’ religion! What utter barf! Why do you people think everyone is as stupid as you are?

Thanks anyway, I’ll save myself since that is about as good as what He provides! And if I don’t He’ll have plenty of firewood for his barbeque anyway. With love like his, who would n’t RUN TO HIM?

Hallelujah!

If you trust the Lord, the Holy Spirit will empower you to live right. ‘He leads me in the paths of righteousness for His name’s sake’ (Psalm 23:3). . As many as received Him, and believed in His name them He gave the power(right) to became children of God (John 1:12). Therefor, When you believe in Jesus Christ, Sonship of God becomes your inheritance. Praise God!

I never thought of my self as a ‘fundamentalist’ untill one day last year I was in a college class and the professor asked if any one considered them self a ‘Fundamentalist Christian’. It was an American history class since 1941 and he was talking about the religious right and conservative republicans in America and he defined a ‘Fundamentalist Christian’ as someone who believes the Bible to be literally true (which I just thought to be part of the definition of a christian) so I raised my hand. He was a super liberal democrate (not that there is anything wrong with that but he had a beef w/ conservative republicans and Christians), so he said ‘your a fundamentalist?’ I said that I didn’t think I was but was by his definition, that I believe in the Bible to be the true written word of God. When I think of Fundamentalist Christians I think of people who don’t read what the Bible really says, like how Jesus befriended sinners and did not condem the woman caught in adultury, Fundamentalist Christians, or who I think of more refered to as Conservitave Christians today in the United States like to beat sinners over the head with the Bible, they attack women getting abortions, homosexuals, and evolutionists and leave their gospel shoes at home. I do not want the label ‘Fundamentalist Christian’ or ‘Conservitave Christian’, I believe those terms are too political and do not portray the compassion and love of Christ. Lets be believers and followers of Christ and reach out with a hand of love with the good news not a fist to strike at sin, Jesus took care of sin we don’t have to.

This is a hot button topic, so allow me press further.

Fundamentalism is characterized by strongly exclusive doctrine - to the point of legalism.

Eg - Jesus only saves if you do and say such and such - as though his work were not done until some Christian comes along and completes it.

There is an inclusive doctrine which fundamtentalists regard as heresy. It states that Jesus has already saved us, and that we merely have to believe this.

Notice that the excluisive doctrine casts the fundamentalist in the all-important role of truth bearer, without whom we are all doomed.

The inclusive doctrine claims that the truth is already written in our hearts. Jesus accomplished this by shedding his blood for our sins.

Just as the blood of Abel changed the human heart, how much more has the blood of our saviour redeemed us?

In christ all things have become new including fundamentalism in christian life.If someone calling me so thereis nothing wrong.

Confidence in the Holy Spirit to complete the work He has begun in our lives(Phil.1:6), is a very vital key in our relationship with God. When we got born again, the Holy Spirit was involved, and since then he works in us to willfully please God(Phil.2:13). The Holy Spirit was given to us to enable us express the love of God; His will(Rom.5:5). And because of our status in His grace, the Holy Spirit is committed to seeing us through the journey of faith. Amen

Dear Pastor,
The debate of once saved always saved or you can lose your salvation is still going on today with bible scholars.What’s your view?
I believe a Christian who is truly saved will have a change take place in his or her life.2 Cor 5:17
But the problem is that many times we want to play the role of the Pharisee and expect instant change.
The other thing is we have to ask ourselves whether we are preaching the Good News or the Bad News.We have to preach the Gospel of Grace and let the grace of God teach people to deny ungodliness.Acts 20:24,Tit 2:11-12.
The Gospel of Christ or Good News speaks about faith righteousness.Rom 1:16-17.People generally know that they have sinned against God but many need to hear that righteouness is a gift to be received by faith in believing that Jesus took our sin and we take His righteousness.2 Cor 5:21
The Gospel is also for the saved!Believers need to know our identity in Christ.That not only we have died to the Law but we also have died to sin.Rom 6:2,8,15,Rom 7:4.We need to know our union with Christ.That we are co-crucified,co-resurrected and seated with Him in heavenly places.
We have to deal with the root.If we deal with behaviour,we are dealing with the fruit.It’s about our identity!Right believing will lead to right living!It is the grace of God that transforms us ,not the law.The letter kills,but the Spirit gives life! 2 Cor 3:6.We are ministers of the New Covenant not of the old,laws written on tablets of stone that have no power to give life.Jesus is our life and rule.The Author and Finisher of faith.Col 3:4, Gal 3:12,Gal 2:20
When we know the Truth,the Truth will set us free!No longer we live but Christ lives in and through us.We don’t live for Christ.Christ lives in and through us.If we talk about living the Christian life,none of us can!Only Christ can live the Christian life.Let Him live his life in and through you by abiding and yielding to Him moment by moment.And when we know how much He loves us, we will love Him and others!1 Jn 4:19,2 Cor 5:14

Have a grace-filed week,
Agape,
Jeffrey Teo

I apologize for my previous post, it was insensitive and mean spirited, and was based on the speculation of others, and NOT the Bible.

It is my experience that most Christian leaders and ‘Christians’ do not truly understand what the Bible says, and hence why we have so much division and bickering today.

Sad to say I see little change in that regard for the future.

I do believe Jesus saves, I don’t think everyone really believes that in Christianity.

Re pervious poster Peter ward I apperciate about your opinion and surely your are entitle to that.I question your understanding about christianity and come to conclusion that christian realigion is just a vain. I am not trying to make you a fool but the truth never changed what ever we said. yes. christ died on the cross for all for all human being and he will save for who admit their sin and need salvation. Jesus christ never asked any one to do this or that christ is not a bunch of rule and regulation he claim himself he is way TRUTH and LIFE in your opinion you mentioned that one of the reason you don’t consider Jesus as a savior because no one can figure out that seems not a reasonable argument but let me ask you for yourself are you serch him dillegelntly? and do all kind of effort to find him and finally come to conclusion from your study and search that he is not exist a clear understanding of every thing but we can not deny simple example I don’t have cons and pros of how TV works or cell phone or for that matter any digital sophosticated communication etc… but the truth is wether I have a clear understanding or not we all used them and benifited no one deny like wise God the creator of the universe would not tested and proof by our finited arrogance intelligence. As the bible said belive in he will proof for you. not the others way So I advice you open yourself to christ and asked him to prrof himsel to you if you are sincere I am sure he will do it

FUNDAMENTALISM VS. SCHMUNDAMENTALISM

Back to the exclusive vs inclusive doctrine debate, any doctrine based on a set of rules is on shaky ground.

No obedience to a set of rules is sufficient to ensure the reception of God’s grace.

The exclusive Fundamentalist doctrines are based on legalisms which become the fault lines leading to church schisms, and even redefintions of fundamentalism itself.

The inclusive Schmundamentalist doctrine has no legalistic requirement, hence no place for schisms to occur - Just accept and believe that Jesus has already fulfilled all legalistic requirements for His grace.

Needless to say, Schmundamentalism is never in danger of being redefined.

On a more serious note, the work of fulfillment of all legalistic requirements to salvation was completed on the cross.

Accepting this frees the believer from needless legalisms and allows Holy Spirit to continue working through the believer.

It is as though no meaningful work is possible until meaningless works are put aside.

Enough!

Here’s what everyone seems to be missing. I said I was a Christian because I have to be, not by choice, by hellfire, get it? Fire hurts, get it?

I don’t give a c**p about what religion is and isn’t. Don’t care. All of life is a nightmare, and I don’t care! Period!

I have to read the Bible, I have to go to Church, I have to love God. Or he will hurt me. That ‘loving father’ junk, what a load!

What I am asking is for is for the church to be 2% honest instead of 98% disingenious, and make the Christian life to be the nightmare it has always looked like, get it?

Might be a reward, might not, blah blah blah. Don’t care, past that. Spit out the truth and be honest.

Dear Peter, Thank you for a thoughtful and eloquent posting. While Carter’s assessment of Fundamentalism may hit on appropriately observed byproducts and symptoms of fundamentalism it does not adequately provide a definition based on its historical origins. The fundamentalist movement (which Pastor Peter actually defines more acurately and classicaly true than Carter as a clinging to a sense of perceived unchanging truths) stems from a reaction to the Post-Industrialist critical movements in Biblical Scholarship in the early 19th century. As scientific advances and the development of critical methodologies provided new ways of viewing religion and sacred texts, long presupposed ‘truths’ came under attack as being products of assumption rather than of fact. An undermining of certainty and a consequent attack on inerrancy led to what we today call the fundamentalist movement - it was a rejection of the critical apparatus of modern biblical scholarship which led to a questioning and uncertainty regarding doctrine and theology. A desire for a simplified devotion oriented Christianity which claimed to centre around the unchanging truth of the gospel ushered in for millions of conservative Protestants a return to a rigid inerrancy which rejected intellectualism and critical scholarship in exchange for certainty. The problem with the fundamentalist movement has always been that those who consider themselves members thereof have never agreed as to what constitutes the ‘fundamentals.’ Claiming certainty and perfect truth historically has shown to lead to intolerance and extremism, delivering the symptons that Carter eloquently details. It is my inability to understand all things, my inability to fully plumb the depths of the mystery of the cross, my inability to see and measure empirically the articles of my faith that leads me not to be a person of intrenched certainty (a fundamentalist) but rather a humble person of faith ready to recognize the limits of my understanding and even the mystical aspects of my faith. As such I believe any form of fundamentalism will necessarily be harmful and lead to extremisms that will hurt God’s children. My faith rest fully in the character of God, in his mercy and grace - without which I am lost- not in my understanding and orientation towards truth. Warmest Regards, Jason

Dear Pastor,

As regards to the view that one who is genuinely saved can lose his salvation.My question is what about the book of Corinthians?
The incestuous man in Corinth fell into deep moral failure.1 Cor 5:1-5 .But even in this case,the man’s eternal salvation was not lost.Even though there was moral and spiritual failure prominent in the church at Corinth,Paul never threaten the believers that they might lose their salvation.
The book of Hebrews talks about Jews who have heard of the Gospel but wanting to go back to Judaism and 1 John is about people who left the church for Gnostism.
Right belief will lead to right behaviour.Right behaviour doesn’t lead to right belief.
The Gospel emphasises righteousness of faith not righteousness of works.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse.
It did not say for as many as have broken the law are under a curse!
Because Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law. Gal 3:13 And the strength of sin is the law 1 Cor 15:56.
Have we ever wondered why Paul wrote that the strength of sin is the law to a church with many carnal Christians and yet many Christians say that it is the law or the 10 commandments that help us walk a straight path.
No! It is not the law that help us .It is the One who wrote the law.JESUS our life and our rule.For we walk by faith and not by the law because we have died to the law and the law is not of faith.Gal 3:12

Agape,
Jeffrey Teo
Singapore

hiest Schmundamentalism

Is there an Athiest Schumdamentalist movement?

This would involve a non-legalistic, non-literalistic approach to unbelief.

It has been said that atheist fundamentalists are closer to correct worship than theist fundamentalists, in that they have only one legalism separating them from God. The one that forbids admitting the existance of God himself.

If thiest fundamentalism is a spiritual veil then atheist variety total blindness. But is easier to heal the blind than to make someone ‘drop their kimono’ agaist their will.

Notice that Atheist Schmundamentalism is Agnostic Fundamentalism - forbidding the choice of believing in God or not.

My next post might cover Agnostic Schumdamentalism, but probably not.

Re the Gabriel and Lisa Poster?

I was just wondering the Salvation we have recived is that fragile?

Re: Jeffery Theo’s post Pastor Peter answerd that question ( Regarding 1 corntians 5 1-5) long time ago. as well as the rest of your questions I don’t go to his church However, I had an opportunity to listen to his teaching CDs

Hi Pastor PKY,

This was revelation to me, for last 2 sunday, when you spoke on Grace and truth. Also how John did not reveal the name of two women on his book. Pastor give us again that msg if you could this was deep. My family meditate on that one and you what Jesus get bigger inside of.
Thanks

Love you…

Fundamentalism vs. Free Will

If we consider the various forms of spiritual fundamentalism:

Thiest - God is the only choice
Athiest - No God is the only choice
Agnostic - No choice

The missing form here is the one that admits that both choices are always possible, and one must be made at any given time. This is Free Will.

This last form seems to be the one that is the reality of the human spiritual condition. We can always either turn to God, or away from him, due to our free will.

Christ did all the work necessary to enable us to easily choose God (life and blessings) without any legalistic requirements.

The first time we choose God, we know we are saved, but our free will to turn away remains.

Life then becomes the discipline of continually choosing God, in all circumstances.

Especially those circumstances which favour the other choice.

Developing consistent value in harmony with balanced standard is expressed in unity.

Justice - You get what you deserve, (and) you don’t get what you don’t deserve.

Mercy - You don’t get what you desrve.

Grace - You get what you don’t deserve

With the above definitions, it is easy to see that fundamentalists favour Justice over Mercy or Grace.

The legalistic mind is outcome oriented, and knows there are rules for everthing.

When it comes to abandoning the rules and favouring Mercy or even Grace, fundamentalist doctrines become a stumbling block.

Jesus took issue with the fundamentalists of his day.

Justice is essential, mostly in discovering opportunities for Mercy.

Further, Justice is rendered unecessary by Grace alone.

Fundamentalism, Crime & Punishment

In earlier posts, I described fundamentalism as being ideally suited to judgment of crime and punishment (sin and sacrifice).

The fundamentalists that Jesus took issue with were the Pharisees, who ran the Temple where attonement for sins was accomplished by continual sacrifice, as proscribed by the Law.

Once a year, the High Priest would dispense Mercy, pardoning the people from any remaining unattoned sin.

Notice that this was a system of Justice, or legal system. Modern Governments are still based on ‘Rule by Law’.

Governments still grant ‘pardons’ (dispense Mercy) from time to time. Notice that this is a suspension of the Law of Justice.

Those who are pardoned do not receive what they deserve.

By Grace alone are we spared from Justice, and hence any necessity for Mercy.

Imagine if one prisoner could ‘do the time’ for all convicted people. They would instantly be free, requiring no pardon whoatsoever!

That prisoner would be Grace. Everyone who lets him ‘do their time’ receives what they do not deserve - freedom from the punishement required by their sin.

Imagine how it would feel to be the one through whom Grace is received. It might feel like getting framed for all sin.

Jesus ‘did the time’ for all our sin. It is the freedom of His Grace that prevents us from sinning again, and again.

What good news.

to: all posters

I am really amazed of how people will react to Pastor Peter’s opinion. I never enter such an interesting discussion, maybe because I’m raised in a Christian environment.

You guys are really smart!

as I believe it even more,
that JESUS is really the LORD of all.

since all you smart people couldn’t describe HIM, nor HIS love.

He is undescribable by words,
which means: no enough words to say everything about HIM.

Love,

Cherry-Indonesia

Dear Beloved,
Wow! There seem to be alot of response regarding fundamentalism.
It’s exciting blogging with you guys as Cherry said.
Just want to share some fundamental issues.
Jesus did not come to condemn but to save Jn 3:17-18
God has already reconciled the world through Jesus Christ 2 Cor 5:19.The Holy Spirit is now convicting the world of not believing that fact.The Bible calls the sin of unbelief.Jn 16:9-10
Contrary to popular teaching,the Holy Spirit does not convict the believer of sin but of righteousness (as a gift.)Because of what Christ had already exchanged at the cross.2 Cor 5:21.The Holy Spirit is not a second conscience!
We are saved by grace not by law.So also we remain saved by grace not by law.Col 2:6,Ep 2:8-9
Sin is a state of being.Righteousness is also a state of being.2 Cor 5:21
If our righteous acts don’t make us righteous,our sin will not make us unrighteous.Rom 5:12,15.Belief and identity is the root.Behaviour and works are the result.Right belief will produce right behaviour.
Repentance comes with right believing.
The Gospel of John is used as an evangelistic tool, yet the word ‘repentance’ is not in that book.Check it out!
Repentance means first of all, a change of mind, not a change of behaviour.
Only God can give us the power to be transformed into His likeness.And that by beholding Jesus,not introspection or self examination.2 Cor 3:18
There is no end in examining self to find our sins or weaknesses.
God said in the New Covenant that,‘Your lawless deeds and sins I will remember no more!‘Heb 8:12
Why are we still bringing it up to Him?We can only truly understand the New Covenant by contrasting it with the old.2 Cor 3
God wants us to be righteous conscious and Jesus conscious not sin conscious.Heb 9:9,Heb 10:11,14.
We have died to the law,not under the law and also died to sin.Rom 6,7
We have been crucified with Christ and we no longer live.Gal 2:20
The law is not made for the righteous in Christ but for the lawbreakers and the ungodly.1 Tim 1:9
Christ now live in and through us and our live is hidden with Christ in God!Col 3:3

What an awesome God!!!
Share your views.

Agape,
Jeff

Yes man of God prays the lord, thanks for ua e-mail, we need a realnship without it we reach that where God is appointed us.